They Like Jesus But Hate The Church?
In a meeting I attended recently with some church leaders from around the country I heard this phrase spoken as a sample of how young adults view the Church: "They like Jesus, but hate the church."
Interesting.
And impossible.
If I understand New Testament ecclesiology we don't have the luxury of separating Christ and his Bride.
Jesus and the Church are one and the same.
When Saul was on his way to Damascus to continue his persecution of Christ's Church a blinding bright light appeared from heaven, Saul fell to the ground, and he heard a voice from heaven saying, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?"Acts 9:4
Who was Saul persecuting? The Church.
Who did the Lord accuse Saul of persecuting? Himself ("Me")
What's the lesson? Jesus was taking the persecuting of his church personally. What you do to the Church you do to Jesus. What we do to--and say about--the Church, we're doing--and saying--about Jesus.
We can't like Jesus and hate the church. It's a false dichotomy (Jesus on one side-His Church on the other).
That's like saying, "I like Arron, but hate Rhonda (my wife)." Here's a little advice: Don't say that within swinging distance of my right arm. :)
How you treat my wife is how you treat me.
I understand the angst reflected in the statement ("I like Jesus but hate the Church"). Many young--and older--adults are frustrated with the legalism, traditionalism, and divisiveness they see in their congregations or the church as a whole. They love Jesus and want to see his Bride become all she can be, but I think they're . . . we're . . . going at it the wrong way.
In my opinion the best way to help the Bride of Christ (the Church) to become stronger, healthier, and more unified is simply to love her--and her Groom--even more.
posted by Arron Chambers @ 11:56 AM
8 comments
8 Comments:
Although I get your point about the value of the church, that doesn't change people's perceptions. Yes, the church is the bride of Christ and the body of Christ, but people have had bad experiences with various forms of "the church." A lot of people are turned off by the program orientation of many churches and, rather than want to do away with "the church" and just have a private faith at home in Jesus, are really looking for a community of disciples that is engaged where the world hurts.
Too much of the church's post-Enlightenment focus has been on private spirituality and helping people get to heaven (as though that were the real goal) rather than on the biblical commission to declare that Jesus is Lord in all the spheres of our existence, and that the work of new creation which will culminate in New Heavens and New Earth has already begun in the resurrection of Christ.
Sorry for the long comment. You hit one of my buttons! :-)
Arron,
I have to agree with Adam here, and I think you make some basic errors in your consideration of this topic: 1) You are assuming that institutional Christianity and the bride of Christ are one and the same, but in fact many shall say "Lord, Lord..." you know the rest. 2) One can take the statement that the Lord and His church are one and the same too far. It can begin to appear like Witness Lee's Local Church Theology.
Placing those two things in perspective gives place for people to struggle with Institutional Christianity, and still find hope in Christ, as well as give us Christians freedom to allow them to struggle.
I am not comfortable telling someone that they have to love my church in order to love God.
Part of showing your love for God is loving His church. According to scripture, the church is when fellow Christians meet together to worship his name through song, preaching and teaching, prayer, taking the Lord's supper, and give with a gracious heart. These are shown throughout scripture and so this is how we worship God. By meeting together and worshiping his name...the location doesnt matter whatsoever. How we live our life is not worship to God but it gives glory to God. I know your Bible probably translates Rom. 12:1-2 spiritual worship, but the greek means act of service. We serve god by the way we live but we worship Him by meeting together with other Christians and doing those things above. So in order to be a true Christian, you must love God and his Church, because we are the kingdom he died for.
I believe the phrase is
"they like Jesus but not the Church."
http://www.zondervan.com/Cultures/en-US/Use/Lead/They+Like+Jesus.htm?QueryStringSite=Zondervan
And the church so many dislike is the institutional religion, not the Bride of Christ.
I think Adam Honnerman hit it right on the head in his comment above.
Thanks Tom, but it's "Gonnerman." :)
Tom--the quote I referred to in my blog was the exact quote I heard at the meeting I attended this winter. I'm not sure the quote you mentioned would have left any better taste in my mouth.
I see good points in the comments that have been posted.
The quote I heard, "They Like Jesus but Hate the Church," and even the one you mentioned, "They Like Jesus but not the Church," taken at face value make no distinction between institutional religion and the bride of Christ.
I know that the word "church" can refer to buildings, people, and institutional religon, but the spirit of the quote--taken at face value--still feels like a rejection of the bride of Christ to me.
I think your reaction (and Adam's and Pastor Phil's) reflect a concern for-and accurately reflect-- how many lost people view the church. That's a burden I share, too. I think we have created way too many barriers between lost people and the Gospel.
My initial reaction was to the idea that Christians can say they "hate" the bride for whom Christ died.
Lost people are loved by Jesus, but until they submit to him as Lord they are not his "bride" and he is not their groom, so I wouldn't expect them to like him.
And--to Phil's point and in light of my comments in the previous paragraph--I would never tell a lost person that they
have to love my church in order to love God.
I do expect more from Christians.
I expect more from myself.
I think that--just like in a godly marriage--since we are in a covenantal relationship with a groom (Jesus), we have to love him (in the truest sense of the word) for better or for worse.
I'm so grateful for your--and the rest of the posters--comments. I think reasoned dialogue is always a good thing.
Blessings brother.
Arron, I agree 100% and I've been trying to get people to understand this but I keep hitting a wall.
I love how you say that you can't divide the church and Christ. That's so right.
Also it says in scripture that if the world hates you, it also hated me(Christ).
Actually I hate Jesus but not his church. By repeated experiences over 45 years, I have seen that Jesus and God are mean and evil jerks who, despite their word, are respectors of people.
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