Letters to the Editor - January/February 2009

'It Is Not Judgmental to Be Discerning'
(posted 2-20-09)
Maybe the people Paul Williams talks with (“Through the Centuries,” February 22) identify and openly discuss the errors of the ancients—or of those in Richard Foster’s footnotes (mentioned in J.K. Jones’s “What the Monks Can Teach Us,” February 22), or of Foster himself, or of the emergents who quote all of the above. To me it seems instead that so many teachers, preachers, and publishers want to quote the true and ignore the false.

It is not judgmental to be discerning about the public teachings of fellow Christians, ancient or otherwise. John tells us not to encourage those who stray from the teaching of Christ, and that when we do we become partners with them (2 John 9-11).

Maybe those who debased themselves, sought “the silence” in an effort to achieve union with the divine, levitated, and decided there are many ways to God besides Jesus do have things to teach us. Maybe. I just want a little intellectual honesty first.
—Name withheld by request

Minister, Pastor, and 'the' Pastor
(posted 2-20-09)
As one who has been reading CHRISTIAN STANDARD for 59 years, it’s been frustrating to read of preachers calling themselves and being called “the pastor” and “lead pastor.” Pastor for anyone who knows Greek . . . is a term for “elder.” And elders (pastors) are always mentioned in the plural. Sometimes you print minister, a New Testament description for “preacher,” and sometimes it’s pastor and especially “the” pastor. I guess I will just have to accept this fact, happy or not, and keep reading CHRISTIAN STANDARD anyhow.
—Richard Hostetter

Is Preaching Partly to Blame?
(posted 2-20-09)
The February 8 CHRISTIAN STANDARD eNewsletter had this in the Seen & Heard column:

The American Humanist Association launched a December campaign featuring ads on buses in Washington, D.C., that proclaim, "Why believe in a god? Just be good for goodness’ sake." But a 2007 survey by the Pew Research Center’s Global Attitudes Project found that most Americans—as well as people in Africa, Asia, and the Middle East—say it is necessary to believe in God in order to be moral and have good values. People in Canada and many Western European countries are less likely to hold this view.
--Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, December 11

I have to wonder, how much of this attitude is the doing of the church across America? It seems that almost anywhere you go the “preaching” consists of picking a current topic and making a few points about the topic while “backing” the points by an “appropriate” biblical reference for good living. In many cases almost any source will do. The Bible happens to be used (in your favorite translation or paraphrase to assure that the point of the speaker is made just so) because the speaking is being done in a church for Christians. I often wonder, though, how many other sources could have been used just as effectively? Is it any wonder then that people have reached the conclusion that all roads (or gods) lead to the same place? One is not superior to the other and therefore you might as well take your choice; it doesn’t matter.

Here’s a question and a challenge to the churches and preachers across America. Do you speak the message that attracts the most people or do you speak the message of salvation? When you ask people to respond, if you ask them to respond, on what basis are they making their decision? I think it is time for some self-examination. When I read Acts and the accounts of the early church, it is apparent the growth of the church didn’t come about because the apostles chose to preach on the most popular topic of the day.
—Jay Reimer
Houston, Texas

World Convention Encourages Many Worldwide
(posted 2-18-09)
Thank you for your balanced editorial on the World Convention in the February 22 issue (“What’s the Future for the World Convention?” by Mark A. Taylor; this issue goes “live” on February 18). You present the challenges accurately as the convention still tries to be a meeting place for the three steams of our movement here in the United States.

If I could add anything it would be to note the impact of the World Convention in other countries. Here in the States we have many conventions and regional gatherings. We do not need to look far for encouraging fellowship beyond our local congregations. But we have many stories from those in countries where churches of the Restoration Movement are a distinct minority and hence are greatly encouraged by such an international gathering.

The 2012 World Convention will be in Brazil. The enthusiasm of the Brazilian Christians promises renewed vigor for the World Convention. There was also a strong bid from the churches in Korea, and perhaps they will host a future convention.

Thank you again for the support given to the World Convention by the CHRISTIAN STANDARD in dedicating a special issue to it early in 2008 (February 24).
—Bob Wetzel
Johnson City, Tennessee

'Thoughtful Dissection'
(posted 2-18-09)
Karen Diefendorf has done us all a real service with her thoughtful dissection of the issues bound up in war and peace politics and the church’s proper response (see “War . . . What Is It Good For? Part 1” [February 1] and “Part 2” [February 8]). My deep appreciation for the research and writing. We too often consider such issues from the reflex of our political alliances, rather than from the facts of the case.
—Al Forthman
Gaithersburg, Maryland

'Excellent, Thought-Provoking'
(posted 1-30-09)
Robert Kurka’s article “Is it Time to Move Beyond Truth?” Part 1 (January 18), Part 2 (January 25), Part 3 (February 1) is an excellent, thought-provoking challenge for all of us. Have we become so involved in the task of apologetics and the presuppositions of “modern” thinking that we have lost the simple biblical admonition to “walk by faith”? I realize that dealing with the “mind-set” of our day is a challenge that requires we do our homework and understand our “truth” approach to the message of Christ. Nevertheless, we also need to consider that God often extends to us a simple invitation: “If any one will, let him take up his cross daily and follow me . . .” Thanks to Dr. Kurka for his insightful thoughts on what the Restoration Movement focused upon as essential and that was and remains a call to the fundamental mandate of restoring biblical Christianity. May God help us all to pursue “truth” that reflects that mandate.
—Dan Graham
Mobile, Alabama

Doctrinal Aspect Falls Short
(posted 1-30-09)
Having studied under Dr. Robert C. Kurka, and knowing him personally, I very much like his articles “Is It Time to Move Beyond Truth?” Part 1 (January 18), Part 2 (January 25), Part 3 (February 1). He writes “the truth” about what I believe is happening in the “New Emerging Churches” in failing to get back to total truth as written in the Scriptures. There is lots of emphasis on evangelism, which is needed, but it stops short on doctrine. It puts emphasis on believing, but not on teaching the importance of baptism.
—Arlie Reed
Eldorado, Illinois

Less Religion, More God
(posted 1-30-09)
David Fiensy’s January 25 article, “The Lessons of Atheism,” deals with a real issue that Christians need to understand in our culture today. We must have an understanding of the zeal in which modern atheists are attacking religion. We can no longer just stand up and say, “Because it’s in the Bible.” We have to understand the arguments of the movement and know how to defend the movement Jesus began.

Fiensy points out that this is an antireligion movement. I would have to say I am antireligion as well. When I look at what Jesus taught when he confronted the religious leaders of his time, one could also argue he was antireligion.

As I read the book God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything, I noticed it was not as much anti-God as it was antireligion. Don’t get me wrong, those in this “new atheism” movement don’t believe in God. They use religion to define God. This is a problem that we as followers of Christ can begin to fix.

We need to do a better job of presenting the image of God to the world. We need less of religious systems and more of God’s image. Jesus came and taught us how to live as the Imago Dei. We need to reclaim the ways of Jesus who was antireligion and loved God. Michael Frost and Alan Hirsch have written a book called ReJesus: A Wild Messiah for a Missional Church which calls for the church to reclaim the ways of Jesus. This is what the world is looking for—more God, not less.
—S. Baker
Via e-mail

Unfair to Paint with Such Broad Strokes
(posted 1-30-09)
The negative reaction to articles about “Emergent Churches” is understandable (“The Emerging Church and the Stone-Campbell Movement: Some Striking Similarities” Part 1 [November 23], Part 2 [November 30], by William R. Baker). However, to paint these churches and leaders with such broad strokes is unfair. Leaders such as Brian McLaren represent only a small portion of the leadership in this movement. Like the Restoration Movement, however, the theological positions of those in the “Emergent Church” are all over the map. The thinking of those in that group is about as hard to nail down as it is to nail gelatin to the wall. Perhaps in time they will become more solid as a whole, but I don’t think that’s true now.
—Michael Hines
Palm Springs, California

'Leaves Us Without Purpose'
(posted 1-30-09)
Thank you for the very comprehensive article on the Emergent Church movement (“Is It Time to Move Beyond Truth?” Part 1 [January 18], Part 2 [January 25], Part 3 [February 1], by Robert C. Kurka). As Professor Kurka points out, the movement is unbiblical and leaves us without purpose.
—Dave Sonnesyn
Longmont, Colorado

'Perhaps the Churches Are Disappointed'
(posted 1-30-09)
Some comments from the pew (about “The Looming Christian College Crisis” by Doug Gibson, December 7):

This article seemed to blame everyone but the colleges themselves for the loss of revenue. Does it occur to anyone that perhaps the churches are disappointed in the “product” coming out of the colleges?

Many of the graduates are immature. They grew up in Junior Church, worked in Junior Church as teens, and have had little experience in adult worship. They can’t relate to people outside their own age bracket.

Many graduates have a certain arrogance about them. They see themselves as becoming another Rick Warren. They are more interested in building church buildings than in building Christian character in the membership.

Too many want to be youth members and then they never have to grow up. They have never worked a 40-hour week in the secular world and can’t relate to the many church members who have.

There is a lack of depth in their spiritual knowledge and there isn’t much interest in midweek Bible studies, or what we used to call Sunday school classes.

(My apologies to the few good graduates that don’t fit this description.)

Finally, the colleges have gone to great lengths to remove the word “Christian” or “Bible” from the college name. This appears as though they are catering to the modern culture and want to be “culturally correct,” but to some it appears as weakness.
—Name Withheld

Consider the Damage 'Fallen Shepherds' Leave Behind
(posted 1-30-09)
I am writing in regard to your recent article entitled “Sin Among the Shepherds” (by an anonymous writer, October 26, 2008).

Our community, church, and family are experienced in the fallen shepherd category. Our fallen shepherd has gone on with his life, working in churches, found new community to embrace him and has a new life and family.

At least the author had the decency to claim “ownership” of his sin, the fallen shepherd in our life has never shown remorse to anyone, and continues to flourish, while the flock and family are still struggling to heal.

This article is like so many others that try to make the sinner “feel good about himself.” What about all those humans he left behind at the crash and burn site, to heal themselves from such devastation and hurt?

I think the last paragraph of his article says it all: “I am doing well. My family has a better husband and father . . . my life has more wholesome than I have every known.” It seems that is one selfish reply.

As for the rest of the people left behind at the scene, it has not been that simple for the community, church, and his family to simply “move forward” as he suggested we do.

I ask that you withhold my name as the author also requested.

P.S.: Perhaps it would have been easier for us if this had been a one-time mistake, but shame on us for finding it was the same mistake the “Fallen Shepherd” had made many times before.
—Name witheld

'Pure Garbage'
(posted 1-20-09)
Your articles on the emerging church are pure garbage (see William R. Baker's “The Emerging Church and the Stone-Campbell Movement: Some Striking Similarities”—Part 1, November 23; Part 2, November 30). Totally misleading, uninformed, and dangerous.
 
True, there are some likenesses between the emerging church and certain “Christian” church congregations. Personally, I want nothing to do with these emerging “Christian” churches with their labyrinths, catholic teachings, mysticism, and other Eastern religious practices. This kind of stuff is not from the Bible. Maybe y’all need to do some research. I can recommend some good books and Web sites.
 
I seldom read the STANDARD anymore because of your liberal theology. Please come back to the truth.
—Tim Dalrymple
Cheyenne, Wyoming

Other Options
(posted 1-20-09)
I am admittedly late to the discussion regarding the article “The Looming Christian College Crisis” (by Doug Gibson, December 7), but there are options to consider besides expensive four-year universities offering several majors.

My preparation for the mission field, and now as an associate minister, included training at Northwest College of the Bible in Portland, Oregon.

NCB trains students for church leadership and ministry. You won’t find business or liberal arts majors, but you will find a major focus on Bible training and equipping for vocational ministry. The professors are active ministers in their respective churches and donate their time to teach. The classes are held at Central Christian Church and the college is under the guidance of that church’s eldership.

Low overhead means low tuition; mine was paid for by preaching part-time for a local church. Today there is no tuition!

I think it would be a good idea if you did more to explore church-based options like NCB, in operation since 1952, that focus exclusively on training for service.

“How long can this situation last? What will happen to our leadership-training schools? Where will our leaders, missionaries, and ministers receive their training if these schools fail for lack of funds?” Doug asks.

Perhaps more of our future ministers might just come from church-based Bible colleges.
—John Fannin
Sunnyside, Washington

Stop Shortening Sunday School Time
(posted 1-16-09)
God Bless the entire staff and all the contributing writers!

I love Sunday school! It is my passion and your articles have increased a desire in me to study my lessons further, do cross references, and pray. I am so disappointed because Sunday school time seems to get shorter and shorter. People need to be taught so they are better equipped to do what God has commissioned us to do. We need to know what is required so it can become manifest in our lives. That is why so many Christians live defeated lives—they do not hunger and thirst for righteousness! The Word is to be practiced. Just as a student of music must practice his instrument, so we must practice God’s Word. I love church, but I love the Lord even more so!
—S.J. Spease
Via e-mail

Not Just Salaries, but Bonuses, Stock Options
(posted 1-16-09)
There is another place where some confusion [about CEO salaries] may come in. For most of us, our wage or salary plus benefits may be our entire compensation (in some cases, there may be a small bonus possibility and a few stock options). In fact, when we consider “what we make,” most of us probably think only about the salary, since it’s the main number that matters on a month-to-month basis.

For most CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, bonus and stock options are often a higher percentage of total compensation than salary. It wouldn’t be unusual for a CEO’s salary of (for example) $500,000 to be combined with these other pieces to yield total compensation of several millions of dollars annually. And, as we know, sometimes these bonuses/options are paid even when company performance has been less than stellar.

On a different note, this discussion raises a humbling question for me. Most of us would suggest that a reasonable standard of giving for many of us would be the tithe. We might, then, tend to think that one of these highly compensated CEOs should give more (and many just might). However, if we would also teach the idea of a tithe’s reasonableness to a person who makes just half of our salary, what ought WE then give? That’s not a question I can presume to ask of you (be you CEO or pauper), but I had better ask it of myself.
—Al Forthman
Gaithersburg, Maryland

Salary Discussion
(posted 1-9-09)
Paul Williams’s article “An Old Column Revisited” (December 28) proves how dangerous it is to be caught outside one’s arena. I reread the opening paragraph several times. He wrote how unfair it is for the average corporate executive to be paid 150 times more than the average line worker. If an average line worker makes $40,000 per year, that means the average corporate executive makes $6 million a year. Am I the only one to notice this, or am I woefully misinformed as to executive compensation packages?
—Mike Grooms
Via e-mail
A response from Paul Williams:
Actually, the number is accurate. It was taken from a study of large corporations that appeared in The Wall Street Journal and The New York Times, as well as multiple other media outlets. CEO compensation was 150 times average salary in the United States, compared to between 11 times and 30 times average salary in comparable Japanese and European corporations. In Fortune 500 companies, CEO compensation is very often in excess of $6 million a year.

Memories of Europe
(posted 1-9-09)
Paul Williams’s “An Old Column Revisited” (December 28) was timely and well-written, as usual. It occasioned some memories that I thought might be of interest.
 
In recent years my wife and I have made a number of trips to Europe on guided tours with other Americans. The Americans mostly listen respectfully, though often they may disagree with some characterizations the guides make. When, however, a guide speaks of their universal health care or other benefits, he will be challenged by some person or persons in the group. That such policies traditionally rejected in America—but which are successfully practiced in other places (at least the guides typically speaks well of them)—are spoken of approvingly seems to be a threat that Americans feel they must challenge.
 
These Americans may or may not be church persons, but they do represent an embedded cultural perspective that seems to be immune to evidence.
 —Charles Garrison
Via e-mail

'Rarely Heralded'
(posted 1-7-09)
I commend CHRISTIAN STANDARD for printing Jim Herbst’s article (“Servanthood Without Star Power,” January 4) in which this veteran of urban ministry shares, with a touch of ecclesiastical faith-based skepticism, about the unsung reality of ministry in the inner-city trenches.

Thank you, Jim, for your years of faithful service to a context for which there may be no immediate solutions, for which there are not the resources to pursue “five purposes” of the church but barely enough to survive, for which an “external focus” is the reality of living within the cycles of poverty and addiction for which there are no ideological platforms adequate to the task—not handing out checks to already well-resourced folks in order to fund their own ministry.

Incarnational ministry to the lower end of the spectrum (unless the context is across the sea from our own country) is rarely heralded by our Restoration media and events. Good work, Jim, and good work, STANDARD, for printing at least a glimpse into this reality.
—Cody Moore
Grand Junction, Colorado

'Article Should Be a Wake-up Call'
(posted 1-7-09)
I appreciate Doug Priest’s article in the January 4 issue, “Life for the Average Christian.” Doug did a great job explaining the whole idea of what “average” really is. I think the church of today has missed the mark of what Christianity is all about and Doug’s article should be a wake-up call to all of us. After 30 years in the local church ministry, I now work at Lifeline of Hope in Kalispell, Montana, and I have seen, probably for the first time in my life, the great disparity between Christianity in America and Christianity in Third World countries.

Lifeline of Hope is a ministry to the orphans of the world. Few know that there is a worldwide epidemic with 150 million orphans who have no one to help them except today’s church! No one else cares enough, and sadly to say, that also is true for many of today’s Christians. I do believe this apathy exists because many of our churches haven’t taken a personal look at what God calls “pure and undefiled religion” (James 1:27).

Thank you, Doug, for speaking out! It is a great article!
—Duane Hull
Kalispell, Montana
www.lifelineofhope.org

Criticism 'Unjustified'
(posted 1-7-09)
The article “Water” by Greg Taylor in the October 26 issue was a great challenge to all of us whose heart breaks at the plight of the billions of poor and destitute. Harold Orndorff’s criticism of statements in that article (in “Readers Write,” January 4 issue; also posted online on October 23) are unjustified in my opinion. He seems to picture anyone who thinks there are those with “too much” and many with “too little” as being purveyors of “liberation theology” and “Marxism.” He states we can’t define too little and too much and that anyone who suggests the idea of inequity isn’t dealing with a biblical principle.

Maybe he should read 2 Corinthians 9:12-15, which quotes Exodus 16:18, God’s own instructions about the provision of manna, to be distributed in an equitable way—i.e., “He that gathered much did not have too much and he who gathered little had no lack.”

Paul’s challenge for the church to give to the needy in Judea, seems to appeal to a sense of balance . . . “for this is not for the ease of others and to cause your affliction, but by the way of equality.”
—Francis Nash
via e-mail

'Idiotic Socialistic Drivel'
(posted 1-2-09)
This current economic “crisis” was NOT caused by CEOs being “overcompensated.” (See “An Old Column Revisited” by Paul S. Williams, December 28.) The fact is, it was caused by socialistic, central planning that FORCED lenders to lend money to people who were unqualified for and unable to repay home mortgages.
 
The Bible does not define the upper limits of executive compensation. It doesn’t put numbers on what percentage of the CEO’s pay an employee must make. It only mandates that employers treat their employees fairly and compensate them timely and according to the terms agreed to by the parties. You should check out the parable of the vineyard if you want biblical evidence that a free market is God’s plan.
 
As I said to you the last time I wrote you about your idiotic socialistic drivel, you don’t have ANY idea how much work it takes to run a large corporation, therefore you are not in any position to criticize the compensation these people receive. And, let me remind you, sir, that no employee works for these companies against his will. If these employees dislike the CEO’s compensation package, or believe they are being compensated unfairly themselves, they are still free to try to negotiate a better situation for themselves anywhere they can.
 
Please, sir, limit your comments about economics to the Scripture, if that’s what you purport to do. Please do not base your writings upon the class warfare driven rhetoric of Karl Marx and his ilk.
 
Also, please do not comment on the generosity, or lack thereof, of people who you’ve never met and do not know their levels of charitable giving. And before you praise grandstanding jerks like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett, let me remind you that Jesus said something about doing your good deeds in secret.
 
You are an envious, covetous little man, and God forgive you for spewing forth such bilge in a formerly fine publication such as the CHRISTIAN STANDARD.
—John Shell
Emporia, Kansas

Economic Column 'On the Mark'
(posted 1-2-09)
Paul, I must say that your column was most appropriate and so very much on the mark (see “An Old Column Revisited” December 28).

So many have said, for so very long, that this should be considered a very pessimistic viewpoint. That’s so very wrong—so very off the mark. When I read on the Internet quote from Warren Buffett—“Be fearful when others are greedy and be greedy when others are fearful”—this shows the true colors of our free enterprise society. We have not been a Christian nation for many, many years and this is the reason.

You and the CHRISTIAN STANDARD and The Lookout and many others could spend the next year writing about greed and not even scratch the surface of the problems in America. The government, whether Republican or Democratic, seems to think pouring money into the problem is going to solve the problem. Only when we turn to God for the answers, and like you stated, bring our brokenness to the feet of Christ, will we be healed as a nation and as a people. Keep up your fine work.

Just a little added note, when I first started reading your articles I did not like your writing, or should I say that I did not agree with you viewpoint on some articles. As I have matured over the past several years I look back on many of the articles and I find myself in agreement with your views. A scary thought, no? I have found out that maturity, most especially in Christ, brings Christians closer together in thought.
—Al Wood
via e-mail

Emergent Church Articles 'Uninformed'
(posted 1-2-09)
Bill Baker’s article about the Emergent Church was possibly the worst representation of the Emergent Church I have ever seen, and his so-called similarities with the Restoration Movement were so strained it would make any informed person of Emergent literature cry. (See “The Emerging Church and the Stone-Campbell Movement: Some Striking Similarities”—Part 1, November 23; Part 2, November 30.)

For example, the Emergent Church, attempting to follow philosophical postmodernism, values philosophical skepticism (i.e., there is no objective, universal truth). Emergent’s skepticism is so extreme that it ultimately becomes existential—Jesus is whoever you want him to be (because even if an historical Jesus exists, we can’t know exactly who he is/was). This is entirely incompatible with the roots of the Restoration Movement.

Indeed, what is so striking about Baker’s article is that it is self-defeating. He argues that postmodernism (which Emergents accept) is a reaction against modernism (which Stone and Campbell presumably accepted—at least according to Baker). This is in direct contradiction to his entire thesis that they have many similarities! The very foundations of modernism and postmodernism are incompatible, which any freshman student in philosophy could explain.

Furthermore, I’m sure the Emergents Baker quotes (McLaren, for example) would be appalled at the similarities he tries so hard to make with the Restoration Movement. It is disappointing to see, once again, the STANDARD print such an uninformed article. In fact, it’s quite embarrassing—Christian readers in-the-know about philosophy and the Emergent Church would find this article laughable.
—Peter Rasor
via e-mail

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